Healthcare rights and misconceptions
July 17, 2009
Many Americans these days keep chanting that Healthcare is a “right”, but lets really look at that. Have these Americans considered what “rights” will be taken away with a Government controlled Healthcare plan?
Here’s a short list;
NO “right” to treatment, the Government will decide if you get treatment, or you’re expendable.
NO “right” to choose your own Doctor, even if you pay cash, the Government will decide.
NO “right” to see a Doctor immediately if you are sick.
NO “right” to a Second Opinion, because the Government obviously knows what best for you.
Now, that said, I know that I’m going to get the comments from the above statement about how some people on HMO’s don’t have any rights now, but, that is a misconception. HMO’s also known as Health Maintenance Organization in their original conception was great plans, key word here, “Original Conception”. HMO’s were created to help you maintain your health, not to fix your health, hence the word “Maintenance” and therefore they were and still remain the most cost-effective policies in the market. Even with an HMO you still have the “right” to treatment, you still have the “right” to go to another Doctor and pay cash, you still have the “right” to be seen when you are sick, and you still have the “right” to a second opinion. So to say that you have a “right” or will have a “right” under this new proposed Government plan is really a misconception in itself along with many other misconceptions.
Misconception # 1
You will still have the right to your own Private Health Insurance
Not exactly, on Page 16 of the just released Healthcare bill under the header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states:
“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.”
So in other words, yes, you can keep your coverage, just as promised right? Well, not really, if you have current private coverage you won’t be able to change it, and if you leave a company and become self employed you won’t be able to buy Private Coverage. So technically, yes, as long as you can keep your coverage in place you will have it, and you can hope that your Private Carrier does not go out of business. Which leads to the next misconception about how the Health Insurance Industry will become more competitive.
Misconception # 2
The Insurance companies will have to be more competitive once a Government plan is in place.
More competitive or insolvent? Back in April of this year the nonpartisan Lewin Group estimated that 120 Million or more Americans could lose their group coverage and end up on a Government plan. So,
if that’s the case, you do the math, that would leave Private Carriers with 50 Million less customers and could cause, as VP John Shelis of Lewin Group put it, the market to”fizzle out altogether”.
We are now seeing that this bill will actually kill the private market for private coverage by not allowing any new policies to be written once it becomes law, so how is that making the Private Carriers become more competitive? This bill is also likely to kill off the HSA’s, a goal many in D.C. have had for years. They have wanted for a long time to crush this alternative because it gives you as a consumer too much control over your own healthcare.
Misconception # 3
There are 48 Million Uninsured because they can’t afford Health Insurance
This is pure fallacy, David and June O’Neill of the Employment Policies Institute puts it into perspective.
• The O’Neill’s classified the uninsured in two categories: the “involuntarily” uninsured, which are the ones that are “likely unable to afford” coverage; and then the “voluntarily” uninsured, 18- to 64-year-olds who have incomes at or above 2.5 times the poverty line and are “likely have the means to obtain health care coverage.” Here’s the numbers – line by line;
• 43% of the 46 million, belong to the voluntarily uninsured group.
That then leaves 27 million Americans who aren’t covered because of affordability.
Now, here’s the kicker…
• One-third of those who are” involuntarily uninsured” are high school dropouts; only 7% of the privately insured didn’t graduate.
• A “disproportionately large” portion — almost 52% — of the involuntarily uninsured are young, 18 to 34.
• Immigrants make up a third of the involuntarily uninsured. (That’s not an “uninsured American” now is it?)
• Almost half of those the O’Neill’s placed in the involuntary column are single and childless.
What people don’t understand is that lacking insurance is not the same as lacking access to care. The uninsured do receive treatment, spending roughly 40% of the amount spent on health care by insured Americans each year. So given these statistics, I ask you do these number’s make a compelling case for D.C. to seize control of 18% of our economy just to make sure a small part of the population has medical insurance?
Misconception # 4
Americans are very unhappy with there current Health Insurance Coverage
Another untruth, according to a recent Rasmussen poll, “Seventy percent (70%) of Americans with health insurance rate their coverage as good or excellent. Twenty-three percent (23%) say their insurance coverage is fair, and six percent (6%) rate it as poor, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Overall, including those without insurance, 62% rate the health care they receive as good or excellent, while eight percent (8%) say it’s poor. For Americans with health insurance, satisfaction is a bit higher: 70% say their health care is good or excellent, while just four percent (4%) view it as poor.”
In summary, if you think the unemployment rate is high now, we haven’t even discussed the potential loss of jobs in the actual health care industry. With Insurance companies losing 50 Million customers as shown by the Lewin group, they will have to lay off employees. Then hospitals will lay off more staff because of lack of reimbursement or not enough reimbursement from the government plan. Next Physicians will retire in droves because they simply cannot operate in a negative business environment (meaning they cannot work for free!), and then who will want to become a Doctor to get paid so little.
Public opinion surveys such as Gallup have consistently shown that most Americans consider access and cost to be paramount in problems facing the system. Perversely, the primary changes that the new Healthcare Reform will bring to you and your family is reduced access to care and significant increases in cost via your tax dollars.
Oh by the way that was only getting to page 16 in the new Healthcare bill, there are still 1002 pages to go.
Call, fax or write your Congressional Representative today and tell them to read all one thousand pages plus of the bill and then say “NO” to “Less Care”, “Less Choice”, “Less Quality” for more of YOUR tax dollars. Tell them to go back to the drawing board and stop punishing the working class, yes the system needs to be reworked but it is not broken and like my Grandfather always said, “Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke”. If Congress wants an example of a broken system they only need to cross the border to our northern neighbor, after all Canadians cross the border all the time to come to American for better Healthcare. But with the new “Healthcare Reform” they won’t be doing that now will they, once again another blow to the American economy, I digress.
Join our Network and we’ll keep you posted or for more info go to the United American Tea Party Health Care Update website.
Sources of Data: Gallup Poll, Rasmussen Poll, Lewin Group and Employment Policies Institute
BreeLee Johnston is the founder of United American Tea Party which is a Chapter of Just Patriots Inc in St. Johns County. She is a member of the National Leadership Council of Tea Party Patriots as well as the Florida Coordinator for ICaucus.org and contributes a regular guest editorial to Historic City News.
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After reading this you would think the world is coming to an end if this legislation passes. It won’t. The problem with the discussions on healthcare is that everyone talks about it being government run healthcare, it is not. Healthcare will still be provided by doctors, nurses, and hospitals. The issues being discussed are how to PAY for healthcare, simple as that. My question to you is you list everything that is wrong with the current legislation but do not offer any suggestions on how to change it for the better. I have see the “conservative” bill and it is no better. I give credit to our leaders in Washington for finally taking this problem up, especially the moderates in both parties who are looking for ways to make this bipartisan. People who want no government intervention into healthcare do not realize it is already there. Medicare allows our seniors to get affordable coverage while government oversight allows our doctors and nurses to be certified. The only other thing I will add is people who do not have insurance (whether voluntary or involuntarily) cost people who do have insurance more and more every year. When they go to the hospital and don’t pay their bill guess who gets hit with the writedown… everyone else. O and it’s not at the “negotiated rate” you and I who do have insurance plans get charged… it’s the out of pocket costs that blow our minds away they are so high! To your points, I do think if we are going to have a government option it needs to be competetive with the private insurers.
Thanks for the good reply “staug2″. You are right in the fact that the healthcare will still be administered by licensed Doctors and Nurses, but they will still be controlled by the Gov’t as far as what they can do for you, just as they do with Medicare, which I might point out is a bankrupt system.
Yes Reform is needed you will get zero argument from me there. But and the big “BUT” here is that we all know that once we give the Gov’t control of something we never get it back. I say .let each State do their own reform, the Constitution of the United States was created to give the States control over anything that has not been set aside to be controlled by the Government
This bill will allow the Gov’t to control another 18% of our economy as well as ANOTHER private industry and could easily put many of those out of business, it is not making them competitive if you can’t buy the products they sell.
I too want reform, like I said tell them to “read the bill” for a change, and send them back to the drawing board for “Real Reform” not Gov’t controlled Healthcare.
A friend of mine that spoke at our recent event recent wrote a great article on “Real Reform” 15 Common Sense Health Care Reforms, check it out
http://www.healthcareupdate.info/RealReformPage.html
Thanks again for good input!!
Oh, and I am not a “chicken little” personality by any means, but sometimes you do have to say “fire” to get people’s attention when you smell the smoke.
Six key moderate senators today, called for a slowdown in the White House’s push for a healthcare reform bill and wrote a Letter to Senators Reid and McConnell:…….
http://unitedamericanteaparty.ning.com/profiles/blogs/how-will-media-report-senators
A searchable version of the Proposed Healthcare Bill
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.+3200:
IBD pretty much backs everything this article spoke of:
Health Reform: Many extravagant claims have been made on behalf of the various health care “reforms” now emerging from Congress and the White House. But on closer inspection, virtually all prove to be false.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332723342557746
Did you know that there are actually 16 plans that have been written and offered up for legislation, but notice how you have only heard about just one.
http://www.cprights.org/plans.php
I do agree they need to slow down alittle with the health care proposals. I kind of think having the entire month of August off for congress is alittle bit crazy, especially with how much time the House of Reps will take off next year for campaigning but that’s an entirely different subject. I guess my major issue with the Republicans in this case is they seem to offer solutions up only when the democrats are poised to pass changes. If they felt so strongly about healthcare reform why didn’t they try any of their solutions when they had the votes to do something about it. It just seems like they are against what Obama and the democrats have proposed and are only offering a solution when they know it will never get passed. The other thing I will point out is if there are actually 16 different proposals out there then taking just 1 of them and picking it apart is kind of silly. We all know that the final bill will look nothing like what passes the house. I do think raising the marginal rate for wealthy americans is a decent way of paying for this. Remember it’s only the marginal rate that is increasing, not the rate they pay for their earnings under 350,000. Also I think taxing the golden health insurance plans is a good idea as well. Most wealthy Americans pay very low actual tax rates due to the amount of deductions their high priced accountants find. This is something that ever Warren Buffet has admitted.
Also, I forgot in my previous post to point out that a major reason why medicare is bankrupt is because health care costs have gone up so much faster than inflation. It’s not really bankrupt as it is still functioning, it is just spending more money than it is taking in at the moment. It’s also one of the main reason health care reform is a top priority with more and more baby boomers poised to be covered under medicare. If costs are not reigned in now the problem will continue to get worse.
I have a niece who is a nurse in No. GA, and she just told me Saturday that hospitals must render treatment to “anyone” in need…even illegals. Recently, an illegal made a special trip to their hospital (from Mexico), had to be placed in ICU for several days after surgery, and his health care bill was over $500,000 (you and I paid that). We have many friends in the medical field, and they all say the same thing…they are required to render service to the poor and uninsured just the same as those insured. If the outlying clinics are unable to treat a patient (even if he/she is illegal, uninsured, whatever), the team is required to refer that patient to doctors at an associated medical center. THIS IS WHY medical costs are out of control, and there are not enough of us to take care of these huge costs (particularly when you eliminate all government workers, teachers, legislators, etc., who are able to have their own plans that are not affected by those who do not have health insurance). Sure, reign in the costs of health care coverage, MAKE IT REALLY UNIVERSAL FOR EVERYONE, reduce the cost (and push) of prescription drugs, blah, blah, blah.
staug2 may be a baby boomer, and we understand his/her outrage also…but, surely there are older people in his/her family who have paid dearly for health insurance for years and now are FORCED to sign up for Medicare as primary provider (which is basically socialized healthcare already). We must accept it and we HATE it!!! We consider it none of the government’s business what kind of health care we use as long as we’re paying our own way. We have no medical issues, don’t average a doctor visit once each year and would be glad to pay for our own PREFERRED health insurance (by the way, we pay for Medicare, and our FORCED deductions from Social Security [a whole new subject] rose by a good percentage in 2009). On the other hand, when the PRESIDENT AND ALL HIS MEN (AND WOMEN) present a plan that they too are a part of, we’ll be on it like white on rice. To consider what the “Government” would do with health care, just take a look at Medicare, Social Security, Post Office, etc., all run by the Government…all considered out-of-control spending and/or failures.
We have two adult children (with young families), who work hard to keep up with these costs, and we fear there will be nothing for them when they’re older; they are paying HUGELY for this mess the government has placed us all in, as more and more is deducted from their salaries to pay for what Congress deems beneficial for Americans.
I agree that Congress receives way too much time off (for the hours spent) and perks are far too generous, such as WONDERFUL health care coverage and lifetime benefits, even if they spend only one term in office. However, taking off the month of August forces them to face their constitutents and, since more than 80% are happy with their own health care, I believe those who represent us would get the message. If something is not broken, don’t fix it. If it needs tightening up, then tighten it up. If it’s dirty, clean it. But if it’s working, don’t shut it down and design something that has been tried in other places and found to be unsatisfactory. Tweak it where needed (such as no health care for illegals that a few Americans are forced to pay for), tighten up Medicare issues, etc.
And, please, do not be deceived about that marginal rate thing…only when making under $350,000…that’s a joke too. There aren’t enough of those people out there over $350,000 to cover the proposed plan. I don’t know about you, but I was never hired by a poor person…and many of those people who are making over $350,000 are small business owners (I’ve been one of those too) who are creating jobs for millions of baby boomers. Please don’t think they can carry the load of this SPENDING CONGRESS…it’ll never happen!
The best thing Americans can do is place politicians in Washington who have a business background and know what it’s like to sign a paycheck. Not many of them, including BO, has ever run a business, has had to create a business plan or operate on a budget (or work a “real” job, for that matter). Let’s go get ‘em!
Response to staug2,
you wrote
“If they felt so strongly about healthcare reform why didn’t they try any of their solutions when they had the votes to do something about it.”
When was that? , Why do people always go back to saying “why didn’t you say something sooner, why didn’t you say something when bush was in office”, so now that I am saying something, because I no longer will be the silent majority that makes it wrong. It’s like not keeping your car tuned up to the point it just blows up and you have to buy a new one and all you would have had to do was maintain it but you didn’t, but what’s done is done, you just try to do better the next time, so yes, us the silent majority should have spoke out sooner, but I/we didn’t, but it’s not too late. I do not bash Obama, I do not like many of his policies but I do not bash him, I did not like people with “Bush Derangement Syndrome” so I will not be one with “Obama Derangement Syndrome”. If I was going to do any bashing it would be the bashing of Congress, especially Pelosi, but I don’t . Bashing and name calling only shows ignorance and lack of self control as well as lack of self esteem.
Once again the system is not broken, what small part of the population that does not have health insurance, still has care, like I said lack of insurance does not mean lack of care.
your wrote
“Most wealthy Americans pay very low actual tax rates due to the amount of deductions their high priced accountants find. This is something that ever Warren Buffet has admitted.”
When is enough, enough?? Sad to say and I say this as respectively as possible because I do not know you so I can only call a spade a spade and that statement was a “wealth envy” statement,
So your saying that is okay to tax them 54% to pay for a very very small percentage of the population that does not have health insurance, they still have care but they don’t have “health insurance” ?
Most of those people you are talking about raising taxes on are the Small Businesses of America, yes the ones that sign our ( or sign mine anyway), paychecks, those people the small businesses, yes the ones that DIDN”T get a bailout,. So let’s just gouge them with more taxes but lets keep bailing out the Car Companies and the Banks, that eventually just file for bankruptcy anyway. Lets reward failure and lets punish success, how much sense does that make?
You are right about Medicare, in its inception it was a great idea, but they did not project into the original statistics that people would start living longer and utilizing Medicare more.
Which is also what the CBO is saying that no number the government has ever come up with in saying that it will cost a certain number of dollars to pay for something has ever ever ever been right, its always way under what it really always ends of costing, so this number that they are throwing out there and saying that it will “cost this much”, therefore saving “this much” is pure bogus, its a made up number to make people believe that this bill will save the government money. And then when they are asked okay “how are you going to do that”, they say things like Sebilius did, “its a work in progress”, but has no answer for any questions directed at her, she danced all over the place and all around the questions, and this is one of our great Government officials that’s going to help implement this.
And what about this Mandatory End of Life Counseling for Seniors yes, page 416 check it out.. . . . woah, Nellie, . . . . aren’t Democrats supposed to be the party of “choice”? I don’t know about anyone else out there, but do you want complete strangers counseling your parents and telling that they are selfish for wanting to continue to live, that they need to think about how much money they are costing the government and make them feel selfish for wanting to continue living and spending time with their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren?
THAT’S OUTRAGEOUS!! COME ON D.C. ,…. READ THE BILL, WHY DO WE HAVE TO READ IT FOR YOU, THATS WHY WE PUT YOU IN OFFICE, DO YOUR JOB !!!!!!!!!
THE TRUTH The real numbers behind the Healthcare Bill
114 million-Number of individuals who could lose their current coverage
under the bill, according to non-partisan actuaries at the Lewin Group
4.7 million-Number of jobs that could be lost as a result of taxes on
businesses that cannot afford to provide health insurance coverage,
according to a model developed by Council of Economic Advisors Chair
Christina Romer
$818 billion-Total new taxes on individuals who cannot afford health
coverage, and employers who cannot afford to provide coverage that meet
federal bureaucrats’ standards
$1.28 trillion-New federal spending in the next ten years, according to a
Congressional Budget Office score of selected elements of the bill
.6%-Percentage of all that new spending occurring in the bill’s first three
years-representing a debt and tax “time bomb” in the program’s later years
that will explode for future generations
$88,200-Definition of “low-income” family of four for purposes of health
insurance subsidies
33-Entitlement programs the bill creates, expands, or extends-an increase
from an earlier draft
53-Additional offices, bureaus, commissions, programs, and bureaucracies the
bill creates over and above the entitlement expansions-also an increase from
the discussion draft N THE HISTORY OF GOV’T EXPANSION, IT HAS NEVER EVER GOTTEN SMALLER, ONCE THEY HAVE THIS POWER, THATS IT!!
1,683-Uses of the word “shall,” representing new duties for bureaucrats and
mandates on individuals, businesses, and States-and an increase of 306
mandates from the discussion draft
$10 billion-Minimum loss sustained by taxpayers every year due to Medicare
fraud; the government-run health plan does not reform the ineffective
anti-fraud statutes and procedures that have kept Medicare on the Government
Accountability Office’s list of high-risk programs for two decades
Zero-Prohibitions on government programs like Medicare and Medicaid from
using cost-effectiveness research to impose delays to or denials for access
to life-saving treatments In other words, they decide if you get treatment or not
2017-Year Medicare Hospital Insurance Trust Fund will be exhausted-a date
unchanged by the bill, which re-directs savings from Medicare to fund new
entitlements for younger Americans
$2,500-Promised savings for each American family from health reform,
according to then-Senator Obama’s campaign pledge-savings which the
Congressional Budget Office has confirmed will not materialize,as the bill will not slow the growth of health care costs
Read all the numbers behind the numbers I just posted
http://unitedamericanteaparty.ning.com/profiles/blogs/real-numbers-of-the-real-cost
When is enough, enough?? Sad to say and I say this as respectively as possible because I do not know you so I can only call a spade a spade and that statement was a “wealth envy” statement,
So your saying that is okay to tax them 54% to pay for a very very small percentage of the population that does not have health insurance, they still have care but they don’t have “health insurance” ?
Not wealthy envy at all… All I’m saying is your 54% tax level is not correct. I would challenge you to find someone earning 1,000,000 that is paying 540,000 in Federal taxes. It just doesn’t work that way. Most likely they have a number of generous deductions that their accountant found that would get their actual tax percentage at a MUCH lower percentage rate than that. In regards to your comment about not doing something sooner, I’m not a basher at all, but come on, don’t you find it kind of suspicious that all these healthcare proposals are coming out of republicans now? Just this morning Obama has said that the current proposals coming out of congress need some work so it seems like he is coming around to holding off on this for a bit and making sure it is correct. You have to give him some credit for at least working with insurance companies and pham. companies to get them to agree to cost savings already. Also I would point out that the AMA has endorsed this effort as well.
Response to staug2…Obama is “coming around” b/c his support for health care is dwindling as the public hears more” real cost numbers” and his own party is defecting b/c they see danger of electability in 2010 if they go along w/this. Take a look at Mass health care, instituted three years ago, spiraling out of control, and 37% in Mass consider it a failure…not to mention the additional billions it is costing above projections. The $20K to $60K are the ones it’s hurting the most. And that’s certainly not “wealthy.” Not surprising that the AMA would endorse BO’s plan, but many doctors are not part of that. Consider Mayo Clinic, which is fighting this. Another reason BO is “coming around” is that the fiscal year figures are leaking out for all the bailouts (now costing taxpayers $23 TRILLION thru September). The Administration is trying to keep these figures silent until after the August recess, but it’s not working.
The 54% (quoted by Bree) in taxes is a correct number…why should people who are productive members of society and employ many people be punished b/c of their success? You can access Obama’s tax filing this year and figure his taxes on his huge income; most of it from sale of his books. They are only a couple percentage points behind other socialist countries in the amount of taxes they pay. I’m guessing that staug2 does not have a hard number on his/her taxes paid out. Add up your deductions for FICA, SSA (just your portion, not considering the matching number by your employeer), property taxes, the taxes on your utilities, phone service, all items you purchase, including gas, and you may be surprised at the percentage in taxes you are paying. If this healthcare plan is passed, and you’re able to keep your possible employer-paid insurance, you will be taxed on that next year. Right now, the 401(k) and medical and dental insurance are pre-tax but will not be for long. Do the math…numbers don’t lie. Maybe if more Americans did this, class envy would not be so prevalent. Guess I don’t get what this generation is considering okay in government. You people are the ones who will be hurt most by this. ..and your children. Think outside the box of Obamaism, work hard and you can be and do anything you want in America…right now.
Again, let’s tweak the system, rework Medicare and cut out the fraud, eliminate LOTS of Medicaid, and talk about “real” numbers of uninsured. Cut out the 11 million illegals, the 9 million who just don’t wish to have it, the millions of children who don’t have it b/c their parents have been irresponsible in signing up for it, and the cost will be minimal to insure the rest. In the meantime, let the 80% of Americans who are happy with their current program, keep it.
Actually I do have hard number on my taxes, especially my fed taxes which i mentioned in my note. I paid 5.36% in fed taxes when I take my total tax charge and divide it by my totals from my w-2’s. To me that is my actual fed tax rate. I’ve got 2 kids and my wife and I make well over the average for the area. We don’t take in anything from dividends, everything is earned from our emploers. I sincerely doubt that the rest of my taxes would end up pushing me anywhere near that 54% level. This is why i am putting as much away as I can into a ROTH IRA. Our taxes at this point in history lower than they will be in the future. Tax policy is a debate for another discussion board. My original point is that I do think we need to reform how we pay for healthcare in this country. I agree with you in that it does not need a total overhaul but some tweeking, especially Medicare. The costs involved are just too high and are rising too fast compared to the inflation rate. Also to just shoot down things from our elected officials that are still in the discussion stages is not the right way to go in my opinion. I give this congress credit for taking up this issue to begin with. It is not easy, like BO says, that’s why there hasn’t been anything done on it in so long.
I do give them credit for “trying” to “appear” as if they want to do what’s best for Americans. A couple of measures to make others compromise does not a make a successful Healthcare Bill, which granted is more than anyone else, or any party has done in a very long time. That said, any bill that ends up putting Private Insurance companies out of business rather than making them competitive is just down right unconstitutional.
What about the 72% that are happy with their current Healthcare? To them we say “oh well”, sorry about your luck, its time to redistribute your Healthcare to everyone; I mean after all “we have to be fair”.
You really have to ask yourself, why is President Obama acting so obsessively in driving the Congress like a team of mules to enact this Healthcare bill before they or us as Americans can read it? Why not give us the opportunity to examine and analyze what is being proposed? At least with “Hillary Care we were allowed to do that,….oh that’s right and it DIED, didn’t it? They don’t want to let us read it, because then the truth will be revealed. According to the most recent Rasmussen poll, more people now oppose this Healthcare Bill than are for it. Even many Democrats are having severe second thoughts about this bill. Yet, the President, once again, isn’t listening. Our President is NOT acting very presidential by STIFLING THE DEBATE on the most important piece of legislation to be considered by our Congress in the past century!!!
When somebody hands you a contract that is over 1000 pages long do you just sign it? Do you just believe that because they “said so” that it is in “your best interest” to sign it? Do you not say, “let me read this first”?….or do you just let them say B.O.H.I.C.A. and think to yourself “wow, this ones going to leave a mark”.
This legislation is going to leave an irreparable mark on America, and a mark that can never be erased, removed, or deleted. Like I said in the past, give me one, just one, instance wherever Government took control of something and “put it back on track” and then gave it back us, the people, it has never ever ever happened.
AMA is only 20%
AMA was actually, briefly a progressive organization favoring universal health insurance, along the German model… during Progressive period, roughly 1906 to early 1920s when post-World War I red scares led to takeover by reactionary forces. In addition, to Ronald Numbers’ 1978 book, Almost Persuaded: American Physicians and Compulsory Health Insurance, 1912-1920, there is an online slideshow (with great documents and cartoons) about America’s 100 year fight for universal health coverage available by clicking here. online slideshow (with great documents and cartoons) about America’s 100 year fight for universal health coverage, as pointed here by Theodore Brown Professor of History.
I hate to give the AMA website any traffic, but they do have the handiest and most complete listing of the specialty medical societies that most physicians do belong to and identify with, so to give the “devil his due” here it is.
For the record AMA on the average makes up only 20% of the Medical Associations and they too can be “bought and paid for”.
The problem is you are flatly saying that private insurers will be put out of business by this. That is not a fact, especially when we don’t know what the final legislation is. Also saying 73% are happy with their healthcare is not the same as saying they are happy with their health insurer. These issues and the bills are still being debated by congress and until something is passed that says I don’t have a choice I will take the president at his word in saying if I am happy with the insurance I have I will be able to keep it. Personally I think instead of creating a public health plan the better way to do it is to get people without insurance (those that truely can not afford it) into a private plan that is bare bones but covers the basics. I also agree with you on needing time to sort this out but we all know that nothing this big and this important will ever get passed in an election year. Personally, I would hold off until after next year’s elections so candidates can get on record as to how they would handle this. Insurers are not completely innocent here though. They need to be taken to task for all the times where they refuse payments, force people out of hospitals before they are completely healed and other issues people have with them.
I would also like to point out there is not a chance that 23 trillion dollar figure is correct in terms of the baiouts. Considering TARP was approved for 700 Billion and some of that has not been spent while other parts have already been paid back. Also I think the entire GDP is like 14 Trillion, the 23 Trillion number for just bailouts just can not be correct.
This is a good place for health discussions though and I look forward to reading more of your articles. It’s amazing there are so few people who are willing to blog about it.
If there is nothing the Administration is hiding from the American people, they should place the plan out for taxpayers to review, and let us decide, since we will be the ones paying for it. Quit trying to ram thru a 1,000-page document, when those voting on it haven’t even read it. No one read the stimulus bill..hence, $23 trillion it’s costing us just thru this FY (that’s September…for 9 months).
Also, we’re not talking about YOUR taxes being 54%…the discussion was the “wealthy” bearing the burden of the cost of this huge health insurance program. You’re very fortunate that you’re able to sock money away in a Roth IRA…smart move…but, eventually, there will be taxes on that too, which is now pre-tax. You’re lucky…I don’t know of ANY employed American paying only a 5.36% Federal tax rate. How about property taxes, cable bill taxes, telephone bill taxes, internet taxes, gasoline taxes, FPA or JEA taxes, ad infinitum?
Roth IRA is taxed already. You are thinking a standard IRA which is tax deferred, meaning you don’t pay taxes when you put money in but do pay taxes when you take money out. Roth is exactly the opposite. You are investing after tax dollars so when you take your money out it is not taxed. The smart move is to have a healthy balance in both so that when you retire and you want to take 50,000 out per year you can take 25k out of roth and 25k out of standard ira so you are only taxed on 25k, not 50, thereby reducing your taxes in retirement years. The 5.3% fed tax rate was calculated by simply taking my total tax paid off my 1040 and dividing it by my total from my w2’s. I had no income from investments. Try doing it yourself, I think you will be surprised at how low it is for the services we get from the federal gov’t (mostly security, roads, education) My marginal rates are obviously higher but overall I think my calculation is pretty sound as it takes out my deductions and credits. You are correct I have not taken a look at the taxes I am paying on sales taxes and fees in my bills but it is not going to get me to 54% or anywhere close to that number. As I said there is no way the bailouts/tarp/stimulus has cost 23 trillion. That is 1.5 times the gdp of the U.S. for the entire year of 2008. I would venture to guess the TARP money (700 billion passed last fall) will actually end up making the gov’t money since when banks have paid money back it has been with interest (similar to what happened with the savings and loan bailout in the 80’s). If you are talking stimulus passed in Feb, that was 800 billion and included tax cuts and spending which even Gov. Christ has said has saved teaching/fire fighter/police jobs in Florida. Many economists actually are saying that the stimulus should have been bigger than it actually was. In recessions spending and tax cuts are the way the fed government can try to get us out of it. Once the economy turns around then spending should be curtailed and the tax cuts included in the stimulus plan go away ( I think they were for 2 yrs but might be mistaken) Honestly that was probably the biggest thing wrong in the past 8 years… President Bush rightly made tax cuts and increased spending to get us out of the 9/11 recession but once the economy recovered the tax cuts remained AND he/congress continued to increase spending. Again though, tax policy and spending are not what I wanted to get into here and I don’t want to blame this on Bush, he did some good things in office, I just think he didn’t handle spending the way he should have. I did still vote for him though
This is way off the subject of health care…the reason I mention the $23 T debt for FY 09 is b/c that number is tied to the reason Congress is weakening on government-funded healthcare…we cannot afford any more spending. And, you’re right, the $23T is more than our GDP; included in that is the interest we are paying on the stimulus, which involves millions/day. We’ll be hearing more about that in the next month. You are correct about the RothIRA vs standard IRA You explained it much better and more correctly. Glad your tax rate is so low; young families need all the breaks they can get. You guys really are our concern (your age group) b/c we know you’ll be picking up the tab for this huge debt; just one of the reasons we are totally against government-run health care. This is all I’ll have to say on this subject for now.
To St. Aug,
Rassmussen Polls and Gallup Polls both say the same thing about the people happy with their health insurance, remember these are the same polls that everyone trusted just fine back before the recent election, so they are not going to trust them now?
staug2 said:
“Personally I think instead of creating a public health plan the better way to do it is to get people without insurance (those that truely can not afford it) into a private plan that is bare bones but covers the basics. I also agree with you on needing time to sort this out but we all know that nothing this big and this important will ever get passed in an election year. Personally, I would hold off until after next year’s elections so candidates can get on record as to how they would handle this. Insurers are not completely innocent here though. They need to be taken to task for all the times where they refuse payments, force people out of hospitals before they are completely healed and other issues people have with them.”
I agree with the above statement
The Insurers absolutely are not innocent here.
However for the people that are not eligible for a Gov’t plan, i.e. Medicaid or Medicare, there are plenty of “bare bones” options, many of them are even guarenteed issue.
One “bare bones” plan I just looked at a major carrier for a 18 year old, 34 year old, and 50 year old male or female in our area is only $18.00, $27.00 and $43.00 a month and that is a guarenteed issue plan that gives them a $50.00 credit towards Dr’s visits and pays 100% on diagnostic services at their specified lab and includes preventive dental and thats with a just one of the major carrier’s.
So it is a myth that there are not affordable plans out there. There are now more affordable plans than ever before in the market.
To staug2:
you said
Personally I think instead of creating a public health plan the better way to do it is to get people without insurance (those that truely can not afford it) into a private plan that is bare bones but covers the basics. I also agree with you on needing time to sort this out but we all know that nothing this big and this important will ever get passed in an election year. Personally, I would hold off until after next year’s elections so candidates can get on record as to how they would handle this. Insurers are not completely innocent here though. They need to be taken to task for all the times where they refuse payments, force people out of hospitals before they are completely healed and other issues people have with them.
I agree you, however you do realize that most insurance companies have these plans, the “Bare Bones” plan as low as $30 - $40 a month,